RESPONSE TO CHARGES OF EVANGELICAL COVENANT CHURCH PASTORS & STAFF

 March 12, 2007

 

Dear President Glenn Palmberg, Pastors & Staff of Evangelical Covenant Church,

This letter is in response to the charges made against me ECC pastors by Keith Carpenter, John Hamblen, Dan Schuttler, Pastors of Kent Covenant Church in Kent, Washington, and Joshua Havens, Staff at Evangelical Covenant Church National Headquarters. So I am biblically compelled by Matthew 18 and several others Scriptures to respond. But I pray that all of you will be open to hearing that there are two sides of a story and will not make up your minds before testing the spirits to see if they be of God and be good Bereans to search the Scriptures to see if these things be true! My response is followed by commentary by other discernment ministries at the end of this letter.

But because this has direct bearing on my response, it is appropriate that I address Rick Warren's appearance on ABC's Nightline a few nights ago.

"Warren also admitted that it can be difficult to strike a balance between the concerns of modern life and a focus on the Bible."

"When you're preaching and teaching the good news, you walk a very fine line where you're taking the world of the Bible and the world of today, and you're building a bridge between those [worlds]," he explained. "Now, it's easy to be biblical if you don't care about being relevant … And it's easy to be relevant if you don't care about being biblical. I happen to want to be both." SOURCE: ABC News

Contrary to what Warren said on the show, there is NO balancing relevance to the 21st Century with the Bible. The Bible and the same false teachings warned about in the End is equally relevant to First Century as it is to the 21st Century. Furthermore, Warren's balancing concept reminds me of the same Yin-Yang balancing that is embedded in his SHAPE Personality Profiling Divination that he derived from Carl Jung's occultic teachings which he obtained from a spirit-guide named Philemon.

 

Warren ends the interview by blaming the victims of his invasion and theft of their churches. If this is not the height of arrogance. It is they who are blessed. This reminds me of the Southern Baptist Press (Warren propaganda tool) article which reported the ousting of 165 members of Gardendale Baptist Church in Corpus Christi, TX, which effectively said they deserved it. Disposable Christians that's the mantra from a despot! Think it can't happen you? Think again! It has already happened to ECC members!
If this is the best ABC or FOX News can do in interrogating Rick Warren, you can't help but wonder what they are keeping from us on other fronts. None of these so-called journalists are even grounded enough in God's Word to even ask the right questions. So Lighthouse Trails rightly condemns ABC for still keeping us in the dark and those who interview Rick Warren are just as blind as Warren leading all who believe this report into the ditch! Here is Lighthouse Trails report on Warren's appearance on Nightline (where you can see Paul Proctor's report too:) http://www.fromthelighthouse.com/blog/
***

Now back to the letters I received from ECC leaders and pastors. First let me say that if they are accusing me of bearing false witness in my testimony against Rick Warren, then these men listed above had better prove it and document it. I consider these accusations very seriously. Bearing false witness against a brother is an abomination to the Lord and slanderers will not enter the Kingdom of God. If you truly fear the Lord than you are required to give me the specific statements about Warren that I made or that I document that Warren made that are not true. I sent documentation on Warren's false teaching to a many pastors, members and staff at your church, and not one of you reasoned from Scripture to refute me, as the Apostle Paul would have done.
So, in view of your accusations against me as well as who shall inherit the kingdom of God you refer to, I remind you of this Scripture:

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers [slanderers], nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." I Cor 6:9-10

The collective responses to my emails, however, were quite typical of purpose-driven pastors who simply retaliate and attack me personally.., quite typical from PDC pastors and disciples of Rick Warren. Don't you think these other staff members and ECC members of your are capable of being good Bereans and make their own decision in their own right as to whether or not they directly to me? It is apparent that Dan Schuttler thinks that the rest of the staff or members are not capable of making up their own minds...that somehow he is a surrogate Holy Spirit for you all. Kent Covenant Church and the ECC Headquarters site invite emails, then Dan Schutter asks me a questions then writes "stop spamming us" in his subject line...common practice with Warrenites forbidding me from answering his question and thereby censoring the truth for other church members to hear. This could have been the end of the matter regarding my correspondence with him and other ECC leaders had they simply asked to be removed from my mailing list, but by retaliating with ad hominem attacks without evidence, I have no choice but respond! Is Dan Schuttler now Big Brother and the Thought Police for your own colleagues? All of the emails I used were publicly posted on your own church website some even expressly focused on Celebrate Recovery. Are you now going to censor them from receiving emails simply because someone writes them to warn or alert them or simply because the inquirer may not agree with them? Cult leaders do this, but I didn't think Christians were supposed to. You will only not block emails that agree with the party line? I am within my rights to demand evidence! Most of those who inquired of the Apostle Paul, opposed him...often violently and to the point of riots. But Paul was eager to engage them. But Paul did not respond in a manner that these ECC leaders have.

If the ECC is NOT Warrenite, why does it run Warren's Celebrate Recovery? If the ECC is not Warrenite, why does it promote Warren's 40 Days of Community on your headquarters website. If the ECC is not Warrenite why are their a host of ECC churches listed on Rick Warren's website under:

Purpose Driven Campaign Church Finder http://www.purposedriven.com/en-US/40DayCampaigns/PDCampaignChurchFinder.htm

Or simply type in: "EVANGELICAL COVENANT CHURCH, 40 days of purpose" in your Google search engine to see how many EEC Churches are promoting Warrens teachings. If the ECC is not Warrenite, why is there is a trail of the destruction of your own ECC brethren case studies because its members opposed Purpose-Driven teachings and his New Reformation Transformation of the Church (Dan Schuttler says I should not put the knock on a brother...yet the ECC has no trouble putting "the knock" on its own fellow ECC brethren and knocking them right out of their congregations)? Proof:

http://www.purposedrivel.com

If the ECC is not Warrenite why does your denomination promotes the very Emergent Church and Mysticism leaders that Rick Warren promotes at your Bible college and seminary (none of whom also did not respond to me emails)? Proof:

Lighthouse Trails 9/11/06 newsletter:

Evangelical Covenant Church - Denomination Gone Contemplative

 

The Evangelical Covenant Church began in the late 1880s "in the biblical
instruction of the Lutheran State Church of Sweden, and in the great
spiritual awakenings of the nineteenth century." The denomination has
ministries on five continents and claims that it "values the Bible as the
Word of God." Therefore it is with sadness to report that the ECC has gone
into contemplative, seeming to have no reservations in doing so. With
several educational institutions, including North Park University, the ECC
influences many people, including many college students.

From labyrinths to centering prayer groups and everything in between, the
ECC is promoting contemplative spirituality to their members. Centering
prayer groups adhere to the teachings of Basil Pennington and Thomas
Keating
, both of whom are panentheists (God in all things). In addition,
ECC offers several opportunities for its members to participate in
Spiritual Formation (an avenue through which contemplative spirituality is
introduced), and a seminar called Habits of the Heart presents
contemplative practices such as lectio divina. A recommended reading list
for Christian Formation contains just about every contemplative teacher one
can imagine.

The denomination's university, North Park University, is reflective of the
denomination and incorporates many of the same contemplative practices and
persuasions as does North Park Theological Seminary, which also has a Center
for Spiritual Direction (spiritual direction - another avenue through which
contemplative spirituality enters).

Many members of the Evangelical Covenant Church will be heart-broken as they
are forced to leave their ECC churches (some of whom have contacted
Lighthouse Trails) in search of ones that maintain biblical integrity and
defend the gospel of Jesus Christ in truth and courage. Contemplative
spirituality
, in all its substance and form, can never do this and will only
cause havoc and deception.

Pastor Keith Carpenter implies that I am a Pharisee because I oppose Rick Warren's teachings. But the Apostle Paul himself cursed the Judaizers for trying to compel Christians to be put back under the law. Rick Warren's covenants and compelled tithing puts people back under the law. (That's who Jesus Christ and Paul described as the real Pharisees). And what did Paul say about them? "Let them be eternally damned"....yes cursed! If you are so confident that Warren's teachings are biblical, then you ought to be eager to engage me in dialog, as the Apostles did in the Book of Acts and elsewhere in Scripture. But none of you did! Who is blessed is not determined by you or me but by testing the spirits against Scripture itself objectively and didactically, not subjectively. So, are all of those saints who have been purpose-driven out of their churches all over the world being blessed too? EEC leaders such as Dan Schuttler and Joshua havens accuse me of attacking a brother. My response is the same as the Apostle Paul's which is "I am now therefore the enemy because I tell you the truth?" As to who is doing the damage to the Body of Christ, and causing division, it is not the messenger, but who imported these teachings in the first place. But I am not so concerned whether God blesses me for speaking out against Rick Warren, but I am concerned about him judging me if I remain silent! As to who is really blessed, it would be those saints who have been persecuted by your purpose-driven colleagues and left dismembered in the wake of the propeller of Warren's purpose-driven propeller, described quite well on even Warren's own website pastors.com which I already documented for you in my last email.

Now to further address the accusations from EVANGELICAL COVENANT leaders against me:

SUBJECT LINE: STOP SPAMMING US
Hey - I'm not a "warrenite" but…..

You're nuts!!
How can you equate Rick Warren with Adolf Hitler?!?!
Talk about sick.
I want to be there when you get to the pearly gates and hear your answer to the questions!!

You would be better off serving the poor and needy in your community than trying to put the knock on fellow believers!

No wonder Christianity has such a bad name. What non-Christian would want to be a part of all that garbage?!?

You're too busy trying to defend Christianity instead of promoting and loving Christ.

I'll pray for you.

Dan Schuttler
Pastor of Worship and Arts
Kent Covenant Church
______________________________________________________________________________
So, what are you personally doing to reach the world for Christ? I would be interested in hearing about your plan.

John Hamblen [Pastor of Kent Covenant Church]

******

 

Hello,

It is disappointing that you would use divisive and judgmental tactics to attack the work of another brother in Christ. Examine your own hearts as to why you are decrying Rick Warren's work. He is advancing the gospel of Jesus Christ and you are only making Christians look bad. I pray that God would forgive you because you know not what you do.

If you'd like to talk more, I'm available via email or at the phone number below.

Thanks from a fellow brother in Christ,

Joshua Havens
773-802-0847 ________________________________________________________________________________

 

Now let's compare these responses to the Biblically appropriate responses. This, of course assuming that you all believe in the absolute authority of Scripture:
2Ti 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
2Ti 2:26 And [that] they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
Col 3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
Col 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
Col 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, [do] all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
Col 4:6 Let your speech [be] alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.
In other words EEC leaders Dan Schuttler and Joshua Haven must prove his charges against me if we have borne false witness against a brother! Joshua Havens has asked to talk to me on the phone, but I can not do this unless he supplies proof that it is I that am bearing false witness. When I receive a copy of a letter from him sent to all of the EEC fully repenting, then I will be happy to talk to him. The rest of you pastors and leaders at ECC might think this has nothing to do with you and you might choose to ignore this letter. You must publicly rebuke them and disavow their statements about me, you will also be guilty by your association. I will make this public.
These responses are also typical of Purpose Driven pastors and followers, as they portray an oblivious attitude to all of the victims of Rick Warren's teachings and those his training has driven from their churches. What is also noteworthy is the complete absence of any concern from those at Kent Covenant Church or the Evangelical Covenant Church Headquarters that I warned that did not respond to my emails. I would not even know about an Evangelical Covenant church if it were not for the fact that I received numerous SOS emails from former members your churches. So you can't claim ignorance about this process of how to destroy a brother which is embedded in the DNA of Purpose-Driven Training Manual and the secret matrices employed by Rick Warren. The posts on Rick Warren's pastors.com site and all of the responses from your staff are indicative of what the Apostle Paul warned..."they are without natural affection"....more proof that you and PDC churches have been brainwashed.
Regarding the statement made by Pastor John Hamblen:
So, what are you personally doing to reach the world for Christ?


Here are my questions for you:

Since when is building the Kingdom of God and leading someone to Christ a contest between Christians? Noah preached repentance to the known world for 120 years and led only 8 (including himself) to repentance...the rest of the world perished in the Flood. Jonah obtained 100% conversions in the city of Nineveh which had 120,000 who did not know their left hand from their right. So who was more righteous? Regarding your question, I would also remind you of the following Scriptures:

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Do you not take any warning from King David taking a census that angered God and David paid for it dearly? If this is a contest than Noah failed and Jonah succeeded. From your own statements, I am further saddened and amazed that you and the host of PDC pastors apparently are not even familiar with still another Scripture:
1Cr 3:7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

Regarding Dan Schuttler's statement:

How can you equate Rick Warren with Adolf Hitler?!?!
Talk about sick.

Apparently Mr. Schuttler is unfamiliar with Psalm 55: 12-14 and unfamiliar with the documented history of the Theologians of the Third Reich regarding the human cost to these people who have been socially bred out of their churches. ECC was founded as the Lutheran Church in Sweden. It is well known that many of these ideas came from Martin Luther himself. So I am surprised Mr. Schuttler would not know that! Betrayal of a friend, colleague or fellow church member(s) is more harmful than even physical abuse. I am sure that Mr. Schuttler does not equate what Rick Warren is doing to the church in Germany in the Third Reich. It is like asking a bank robber how he feels about how the depositors feel about him stealing their money! So how about asking the victims of Warren's indoctrination and the real victims who were removed from their churches because of Warren. They think the comparison is most appropriate. One wife of a lifetime elder was curled up in the fetal position in her kitchen because her husband was destroyed by this movement...and yes by real people! Where is Mr. Schuttler's compassion for these abused saints? It is not I who am sick, but those victims who are sick at heart!

Here is a Scripture that depicts why Warren's Spiritual Eugenics could actually have more impact and produce a greater human cost:

Psalm 55: 12-14

12 If an enemy were insulting me,
I could endure it;
if a foe were raising himself against me,
I could hide from him.
13 But it is you, a man like myself,
my companion, my close friend,
14 with whom I once enjoyed sweet fellowship
as we walked with the throng at the house of God.

If you think Rick Warren's teachings are not a false gospel , then you need to read his Ladies Home Journal column. Then read Paul Proctor's article IT'S YOUR CHOICE: http://worldviewweekend.com/secure/cwnetwork/article.php?&ArticleID=573)

Rick Warren thinks The Roman Catholicism is simply another Christian denomination and not a religion of necromancy and mysticism. Rick Warren promotes the Jesus the Carl Jung believed in...Carl Jung being the core of Warren's SHAPE Program? So how many Warrenite covenants have you or your members signed that the true Jesus forbade. [Also see Bob DeWaay's article addressing the question of how you could possibly even know how much I am blessing someone.]

I receive SOS distress calls and letters from victims of Warren's teachings and instituted programs in churches all over the world, who receive the same treatment as some of you have dished out to me. What Mr. Schutter and Mr. Havens wrote to me is not even unique. But many of these people have no one to speak in their behalf and are simply deleted from their congregations as what Rick Warren would call "resisters", "pillars" and those who "must die!" But I will defend these orphans and widows! Since I address to tens of thousands of people on the radio and in print, it becomes even more critical that you supply proof of his allegations in compliance with above Scriptures, so that I would be able to correct any of my supposed false teaching to any listeners and readers.

I am a frequent guest on national Christian radio shows, including Watchman on the Wall, Southwest Radio Church with my commentary on the September 5 Wall Street Journal article and the Baptist Press cover article. As the occasions permit, I am compelled to name names and mark Dan Schuttler and Joshua Havens, as I have Dr. Steve Gaines, at Bellevue Baptist Church in Memphis, TN, in these broadcasts, as they typify and are emblematic of the treatment of saints throughout the body of Christ who dare to oppose Rick Warren or even appeals to test his teachings and programs or refuse to sign his many covenants. Are the responses of Dan Schuttler and Joshua Havens what is in store for anyone who challenges Rick Warren's teachings in their own congregation? It is certainly typical of how members of churches have been treated by pastors in their own churches who oppose Warren.

Dan Schuttler can choose to block, ignore or delete this email from your server too, and turn a deaf ear to the cries of the innocent, and let the record reflect this, possibly believing they can hide the truth from your members and it will have no impact on your church. But if you do, you would do so at your own peril, as it would behoove you to hearken unto my words, but more importantly the host of dismembered victims left in the wake of the propeller of Rick Warren's Global Purpose Driven Church and Peace Plan, because I will still be able to warn the church around the country and outside of it about you, both in print and in national broadcasts, as I have already done with Lee McFarland of Radiant Church near Phoenix, Pastor Tommy Barnett, First Assembly of God of Phoenix, Steve Gaines of Bellevue Baptist Church in Tennessee, and now Pastor Lynn Kent another Purpose-Driven leader from Greater Portland Bible Church, now interim pastor of Maranatha Bible Chapel in Horseheads, NY, who was senior pastor of Greater Portland Bible Church which he completed transformed to a PDC church?
Of course you can change some of this... by simply repenting and making restitution to all of those you have led astray with Warren's doctrines of demons and seducing spirits at the Evangelical Covenant Church.

This letter did not come from a ECC Church, but it mirrors responses from them and other PDC Pastors...and my response fits the conditions under which I would speak to EEC Staff Member Joshua Havens:

March 11, 2007
Dear Friends,
Please remove my name and EMAIL No. from your mail list.
Have you ever met personally or sat down face to face with
Rick Warren?
The worst thing that can happen in this strange contemporary
world we live in is for Christians to fighting to destroy one
another. None of us will be in total agreement concerning
Scripture until we get to Heaven. Each and all of us will
certainly be surprised in some areas of interpretation.
Thank our wonderful Lord that He is merciful and long-
suffering with us and me especially.
Jimell Badry
Music/Administration
First Baptist Church of
Black Forest, Colo. Springs, CO

 

RESPONSE:
March 11, 2007
Dear Jimell Badry,

You me to remove me from my email list, then ask me a question in the same email. You have contradicted yourself. So which request reigns?

The Apostle John never met or sat down with Diotrophese and I have not met or sat down with the Pope either...yet both should be marked as false teachers and destroyers of the brethren. And Jimell Badry as not met me either or sat down with me, so how are you able to rebuke and castigate me? Are you not familiar with the Scripture that of such a one who is a false teacher who refuses to repent as Rick Warren, I could not sit down and eat with him.

I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with immoral men; not at all
meaning the immoral of this world, or the greedy and robbers, or
idolators, since then you would need to go out of the world. But rather I
wrote to you not to associate with any one who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of immorality or greed, or is an idolator, reviler, drunkard, or robber--not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. "Drive out the wicked person from among you." 1 Corinthians 5.9-13

Besides this I had written him and he as refused to respond or repent.

You would do well to also remember this Scripture which also governs this situation:

Tts 3:10A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
Tts 3:11Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.
Rick Warren promotes false teaching, false teachers, and false translations. What more is required?
I will email you one further second warning, afterwhich I will remove you from my mailing list.
But I will not remove your name from those I publicly name....that is unless you too repent!
Sincerely in Christ,


James Sundquist
Director
Rock Salt Publishing

I will leave with you a response from Pastor Bob DeWaay to another Purpose-Driven supporter who attacked him for his radio show and book opposing Rick Warren's false teachings, for it is in great part quite reflective of Dan Schuttler and Joshua Havens views and appropriate in light of their emails to me and because they to not believe my report, this is the testimony of one more scholar and witness, who like Dr. John MacArthur, calls Warren's teachings "Fool's Gold":

"My intent is not to attack and condemn, but point out the difference between what the Bible teaches and what is promoted by the Purpose Drive program. You have not offered any Biblical evidence to support your contention that the Purpose Driven or other seeker movements are following the Biblical pattern. In the radio shows and particularly my book I offer point by point analysis of Rick Warren's claims and compare them to Scripture. In dozens of cases Warren misuses Scripture. If he is going to be the role model for pastors in America, then why teach them to use really bad Biblical interpretation? If you wish to debate this matter pick one of the examples and defend Rick Warren and show me where I am wrong. For example, I claim that Warren's use of the Message translation of Matthew 16:25 to promote "self-sacrifice to find one's true self" is a misuse of the passage. I offer evidence for my claim that Matthew 16:25 is about finding eternal life, not ones "true self." Please prove to me that Warren is right and I am wrong, from Scripture. The same goes for his interpretation of Ephesians 1:11; 1 Corinthians 2:7, Ephesians 1:4a; 1Thessalonians 1:8; and Genesis 6:8. These are just a few examples where Warren turns the meaning of a passage on its head. I am willing to defend my interpretation of each of those passages and cite scholarly sources and contextual evidence. Is Rick Warren willing to do the same? Can he? Perhaps you would wish to defend his interpretations for him. Whatever the case, it is symptomatic of a bigger problem when how we handle God's sacred Word becomes seemingly irrelevant.

How do you know that I "do less for the Kingdom of God"? Who are we to judge such things? I am not judging what Rick Warren does for the kingdom, which only God knows, but am comparing his teachings to scripture. I claim that the Bible defines the church. I claim that Jesus Christ defines what is "healthy." I claim that unbelievers cannot determine the church's message or practice. I claim that Rick Warren's human wisdom that is found throughout his book is not Biblical. I claim that it is wrong to cite New Agers, Socialists, Eroticists, and other pagans approvingly and imply they are teaching the same thing the Bible is.
If you wish to debate these matters then respond specifically to them.

I do not doubt that privately Rick Warren believes the message of salvation and presents it to unbelievers. But his public statements are another matter all together. I have a chapter in my book about this.
You assume I have bad motives and am only trying to gain readers. How do you know that? I am not questioning Warren's motives, but his doctrine and practice. You are judging what you cannot know.
Your claim that we cannot publicly debate theological issues is false. How can you claim that we have to follow whoever is most popular and that any who question important issues publicly are "dividing the body"? Such an approach is abusive and robs people of the opportunity to practice discernment as the Bible tells them to.

I agree that we should work together with one another to fulfill God's commission. But I do not believe that Rick Warren has defined that commission Biblically. I cannot support his P.E.A.C.E. plan because it is not God's commission. Christians are free to give alms and help the poor. I do myself. But that doesn't mean bonding together with Muslims and other worldly people to create a massive organization to solve the world's problems.

I am warning the body of Christ about the Purpose Driven movement because I believe it is not from God and is leading the evangelical movement astray. If you disagree, then that is between you and the Lord. But to say that all opposing views must be stifled for the sake of unity is to rob the church of objective ways of making decisions. I am surely not keeping Rick Warren from promoting his movement. I am just disagreeing with it.

In Christ,
Bob DeWaay
Pastor
Twin City Fellowship
Minneapolis, MN"

________________________________________________________________________________

 

RE JOHN HAMBLEN
As to Pastor John Hamblen's question as to what peace plan I would implement for the whole earth...it is the one we had from the beginning of the church...that is the one Jesus Christ himself gave in the Great Commission. There is not another one or another Reformation. But to bring this one, we now must remove all of the barriers and encumbrances that Rick Warren has put in place. If you maintain it is the same Gospel. then the one Warren brought forth in the Ladies Home Journal would be valid. But it is another Gospel!

Finally, I leave with you these warning Scriptures:

"Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
But if he will not hear [thee, then] take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell [it] unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican." Matthew 18:15-18
The Apostle Paul also named names!
"Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them." Romans 16:17
2Jo 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into [your] house, neither bid him God speed: 2Jo 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

In seeking the multitude of Godly counsel, I presented Keith Carpenter, John Hamblen, Dan Schuttler, Pastors of Kent Covenant Church in Kent, Washington, and Joshua Havens views to other pastors and Christians in discernment ministries. Here are their responses:

Well ... My response to "John" [Hamblen] would be .... Those of us who are warning people about the false and deadly social gospel of Rick Warren are doing exactly what the Word of God tells us to do; as well as we are being truthful about the eternal consequences of sin and WHO the only answer to that sin problem is.

But maybe it is better summed up in what we are NOT doing...

We are NOT pushing a deadly poison on an unsuspecting people leading them to hell via all things purpose driven.

We are NOT preaching and teaching a false Christ in the name of global P.E.A.C.E.

We are NOT getting in bed with the world and all it's glitter.

We are NOT engaging in un-holy alliances in the name of relevance.

We are NOT calling terrorists and communist countries (the very enemies of God and His people) friends and peaceful.

We are NOT purposely steam rolling people out of their churches.

We are NOT destroying the body of Christ to install a false and eternally deadly and poisonous social gospel.

We are NOT promoting and winking at homosexuality in the name of a social gospel.

We are NOT producing rotten fruit in the form of hirelings and young people with ZERO understanding or respect for God and His Word.

We are NOT producing a people with NO FEAR of a Holy God! NEED I GO ON? Feel free to pass this on.

In His Service and for His Glory,

Tracye Ganotracye@prophezine.com http://www.prophezine.com

 

Hi James,

A few Scriptures to send this poorly informed young man .... There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. (Proverbs 16:25 KJV) Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (Matthew 7:20-23 KJV) Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? Whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. (James 4:4 KJV)

Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. (1 John 2:15 KJV)

Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! For so did their fathers to the false prophets. (Luke 6:26 KJV) [ The world adores Rick Warren and his false social gospel ]We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him. (1 John 3:14-15 KJV)

This is not the same smarmy politically correct love that the world is pushing in the name of the Rick Warren's false social gospel called Purpose Driven. It is a true love of those who belong to God through Christ Jesus. This young man would do well to examine his own heart and see if he be in the faith or has believed a lie.

I would also add that the false social gospel may feed some hungry bellies but leaves them dead in their trespasses and sins, and that is pure evil! Feel free to pass this onto him.

In His Service and for His Glory,

Tracye

Ganotracye@prophezine.com

http://www.prophezine.com

To Whom It May Concern, [To all EEC Pastors and Members]

As a Christian, I have NOTHING other than a personal desire to
base my faith upon. I have made a willing, personal, free choice to
BELIEVE. Initially, the BIBLE was my only tangible basis for faith
in God, but the subsequent influence of the Holy Spirit confirmed
my belief, my hope, and my faith. Warren does not teach the Bible,
rather he uses it as a tool to serve his own desires. That is pure sin.
Warren is a deceitful "Closet Dominionist", who hides his true agenda.
That is why it is SO important to teach the whole, entire Word of G-d
accurately, always in context, without omissions, or personal editing,
or privately derived interpretations that validate a personal agenda. All
faith is based upon the true knowledge and convictions provided by the
Bible, combined with personal encounters with G-d in one's life. That
is why Doctrine is necessary to the accurate delivery of the message.
Why do you think so many Christians object to Warren's methods?

Because, he is notorious for his pragmatic abandonment of doctrine,
among other things. Consequently, Warren's methods and motives
are suspect, because he delivers an incomplete and altered message.
Remember the fundamentals: Bible based, Christ centered, and
Holy Spirit led, (Not purpose driven, Warren's Purpose). It would be
bad enough if he started from scratch and built his own personal church
of apostasy, but no he had to entice and seduce other Christian Churches
to follow his new reformation, as he laughingly said: "Resistance is
futile! You will be assimilated
!" Warren wraps his leavening in a cloak
of altruism, which the simple minded can't see past. Shall we accept
his pragmatic paradigm and work for the lofty goals he promotes, while
we ignore the abhorrent methods and means he applies to achieve them?
Rick Warren is a LIAR and a Deceiver, make certain you're not a victim.
Pray for discernment, do your due diligence research in Berean fashion,
and search out the truth of the complaints your Christian brothers and
sisters have against Rick Warren and his cronies, before it's too late.

David of Lake Forest
Personal witness, testifying what goes on at Saddleback Church
************

 

So Standing for The Faith and exposing false doctrine and false teachers and teachings that divide and destroy The Church of The Lord Jesus Christ is now considered " divisive tactics"?

Are you even serious sir?

That is " backwards 'thinking,....It is every Christians duty to defend THE FAITH ,and to uphold sound doctrine.

You plainly appear to be mystically brainwashed into an unholy and Unbiblical total pragmatism, ie; ( any method or tactic used to change and/or redefine The Church from what it has historically been and its' Biblical and time proven roots of Biblical faith and practice , you now arrogantly consider to be only worthy of wholesale destruction, desecration, and intense humanistic redefinition;
In so doing, You have amazingly fully deemed as sanctified and absolutely necessary a mind-numbed and unqualified man-centerred humanistic program by a man named Rick Warren, with no regard for whether or not The Word of God is being adhered to or deviated from.

That may be what educators call " thinking outside the box"....but...when it comes to GODS WORD as THE BOX.... you have now dangerously careened and ventured into a rudderless voyage of pragmatic propaganda and moral relativism.
Plainly speaking, never in the history of the Church has such an arrogant and mislabeled humanist attack been made that so thoroughly seeks to discredit hundreds of years of Godly ministers and men and women who were faithful Biblical stewards of

1. GODS'' TRUTH
2. GODS' DOCTRINES REGARDING THE FORMATION AND NATURE OF HIS CHURCH,

3. GENTLY SHEPHERDING GODS' FLOCK

4. HEEDING GODS CALL FOR SEPARATION FROM THE WORLD

5. FOLLOWING GODS CLEAR MANDATE FOR PREACHING THE WHOLE
COUNSEL OF GOD

6. NEVER SHRINKING FROM WARNING OF GODS' HATRED AND PUNISHMENT FOR SIN

7. DILIGENTLY SEEKING TO OBEY AND TO DISPLAY GODS CHIEF DESIRE TO GLORIFY HIMSELF AND NOT MEN, NOR THIS WORLDS SYSTEM. OR CORRUPT BUSINESS MODELS.

It is an UNHOLY spirit of error and compromise with the world and its'
corporate , relativistic, pragmatic philosophies that buoy the Purpose Driven phenomenon. The end justifies the means is not a Christian concept...it is a cult like, neo pagan mindset, that denies Holy Spirit leading, and ignores God inspired Biblically refined conscience.

You endorse Rick Warren as a " Uniter " ? When it is the very programs and philosophies of Rick Warren which are not only arrogantly divisive in and of themselves, but also train pastors to divide up their flocks within their churches according to Rick Warrens philosophies. ( Transitioning an Established Church ) ** by Dan Southerland.

 

Rick ENDORSES such unholy divisive tactics and tells pastors to let those who will not agree with Rick ( PDC ) to " leave " ..or ... if any of the "pillars of The Church" who disagree Biblically and will not succumb to Rick Warrens' dictates need to get out ..or be "put out " ...and that these longtime Faithful Christians should be treated as Blessed subtractions .....no matter their length of faithful service or commitment to the work of The Church and Christs' kingdom. This is ruthless and arrogant tyranny, NOT GENTLE SHEPHERDING.
No sir... it is false teaching as is found in Purpose Driven Church and Purpose Driven Life that is cruelly and deceitfully dividing and scattering Gods' Flocks.
And you sir are an INTEGRAL part of this great end times delusion sent by GOD HIMSELF.

You are quite thoroughly deceived, and I pray that God will grant you repentance from this deception...as it is you sir...who do not know what you do....

Don Mitroff

************
RE: JOSHUA HAVENS, ECC

Greetings in Jesus.

You may inform Mr. Havens on my behalf of the following if you believe it prudent, although I have my doubts that his blindness will improve. I hope I am wrong but his words impress me as the words of one who chooses to believe a religious lie instead of the truth.
For his sake I hope I am mistaken.

What Mr. Warren is advancing is not the biblical gospel but a combination of psychology, marketing, and unbiblical compromise that misrepresents and undermines the biblical gospel.

Mr. Warren's shared platform at the 2004 National Pastor's Conference with Post Modernist/ pro homosexuality guru Brian Maclaren where the demonic practice of yoga followed his address proves all that needs to be proven regarding Mr. Warren and his followers.

His confusion of justification and sanctification where he teaches (on page 271) not to tell those into substance abuse and immoral living to repent but only to get Jesus into their lives proves he does not understand the gospel. If someone does not repent, Jesus will not come into their life.

Mr. Warren's use of the twisted paraphrase 'The Message' for his ridiculous ":proof texting" is an utter distortion and corruption of God's Word, and his use of personality profiling replaces biblical discipleship with a humanistic lie.

His antics in going to Syria in November the very week that the Syrians murdered Lebanese Christian leader Pierre Jemayel and singing the praises of a regime that violates human rights and supplies terrorist Hizbollah with the rockets to fire at Israel and that persecutes Christians further demonstrate the depraved hypocrisy of Mr. Warren.

His false teaching to 'avoid end times prophecy' demonstrates categorically that he is a deceiver, and your own failure to recognize these things categorically demonstrates your own ignorance spiritually and doctrinally.

If Mr. Havens wishes to resort to terms like "divisive", I suggest he use the term biblically as it is used in Romans 16 ; God's Word says that is rather those like Mr. Warren who depart from the teaching of scripture, not those who uphold who are divisive.
Neither does Mr. Haven's appear to comprehend that we are commanded to judge all things on the basis of scripture (1 Corinthians 2:15) and if something (such as PD) does not agree with scripture it is not us being judgmental but it is the judgment of God.

Mr. Haven's additionally appears too ignorant of biblical Christianity to grasp that God's Peace plan is evangelism - "The Gospel of Peace" (Ephesians 6:15, Isaiah 52: 7). It does not appear to even dawn on Mr. Haven's that Rick Warren's so called 'Peace Plan' does not even mention the Gospel but only things 'caring for the sick, assisting the poor, education, ' etc. ; a purely social gospel.
Speaking as one who directs a ministry that operates orphanages for AIDS babies in Africa, and a bible college for Third World pastors, I have learned a great deal about caring for the sick, assisting the poor, education etc. But this itself is not the Gospel and will not save a single soul.

The Word of God in fact specifically warns of such deceivers as Rick Warren who will arise in the last days with a
'Global Peace Plan" saying: "Peace Peace, When there is no Peace" (Jeremiah 6:14 & 8:11) ; When men say 'Peace and Security then the end shall come'(1 Thessalonians 5:3).

We can either believe Purpose Driven & Rick Warren or we believe The Word of God & Jesus Christ, but we can obviously nor believe both. Mr. Havens seems to have chosen Rick Warren over Christ and Purpose Driven over The Word of God.


Sincerely in Christ,

J.Jacob Prasch
Director
Moriel Ministries
http://www.moriel.org/

 

CELEBRATION RECOVERY (Promoted by ECC)
"A Way Which Seemeth Right..."
T. A. McMahon
There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. (Proverbs 14:12)
I recently attended the Celebrate Recovery Summit 2005 at Saddleback Church in Southern California. The primary purpose of the conference was to train new leaders who would return to their churches and inaugurate the Celebrate Recovery (CR) program. Saddleback's pastor, Rick Warren, describes CR as "a biblical and balanced program to help people overcome their hurts, habits, and hang-ups...[that is] based on the actual words of Jesus rather than psychological theory [emphasis added]." 1

As a long-time critic of psychological counseling and 12-Steps therapies in the church (see The Seduction of Christianity and archived TBC newsletter articles and Q&As), I was pleased to have the opportunity to learn firsthand from those who are leading and/or participating in the program, to better understand what was intended in CR, and to see how it is implemented. What I learned right away was that the 3,000 or so in attendance had a tremendous zeal for the Lord and an unquestionable sincerity in desiring to help those who were struggling with habitual sin. This was my impression in all of my interactions-with individuals, in small groups, in workshop sessions, and in the general worship sessions. The CR Summit lasted three (eight- to nine-hour) days and covered nearly every aspect of Celebrate Recovery.

Nevertheless, other thoughts ran through my mind as I reviewed whether or not I had missed something significant in my previous criticisms of 12-Steps recovery therapies. Is Celebrate Recovery's 12-Steps program truly different-that is, "biblical and balanced…rather than psychological"-as Rick Warren believes? Furthermore, is he simply naïve when he says in his "Road to Recovery" series of sermons, "In 1935 a couple of guys formulated, based upon the Scriptures, what are now known as the classic twelve steps of Alcoholics Anonymous and used by hundreds of other recovery groups. Twenty million Americans are in a recovery group every week and there are 500,000 recovery groups. The basis is God's Word [emphasis added]." Or is Celebrate Recovery another alarming example of a way that seems right to a man but one that is turning believers to ways and means other than the Bible to solve their sin-related problems? Let's consider these questions in light of some A.A. and 12 Steps background information.

To begin with, 12-Steps programs are not just a Saddleback Church issue. Increasing numbers of evangelical churches are sponsoring Alcoholics Anonymous (A.A.) and Narcotics Anonymous (N.A.) meetings and/or creating their own self-help groups based upon A.A.'s 12-Steps principles. Bill Wilson, one of the founders of A.A., created the 12 Steps. Wilson was a habitual drunk who had two life-changing events that he claims helped him achieve sobriety: 1) he was (mis)informed by a doctor that his drinking habit was a disease and was therefore not his fault, and 2) he had an experience (which he viewed as spiritual enlightenment) that convinced him that only "a Power greater than" himself could keep him sober. Attempting to understand his mystical experience, he was led into spiritism, a form of divination condemned in the Scriptures. His official biography indicates that the content of the 12-Steps principles came to him "rapidly" through spirit communication. Certainly not from God.

Celebrate Recovery began 14 years ago at Saddleback and is used in more than 3,500 churches today, making it evangelical Christianity's most prominent and widely exported 12-Steps church program. Warren considers CR to be "the center of living a purpose-driven life and building a purpose-driven church" and recently announced that Chuck Colson's Prison Fellowship would begin implementing CR in every prison where the ministry is functioning.

Celebrate Recovery is a very complex methodology that attempts to bring biblical adjustments to the 12-Steps program originated by A.A. and utilized in numerous other "addiction" recovery programs. The complexity, however, applies to the setting up and implementation of the program as well as to the strict rules that govern its execution. Although there are many problems related to "making it work," there is only space in this article to address some fundamental issues. Let's begin with the implications regarding the name of the program.

Reflecting A.A.'s influence upon CR, the term "Recovery" is significant. All those in A.A. are "recovering" alcoholics, who, according to A.A., never completely recover. Recovery is a term that primarily denotes a process of physical healing. A.A. teaches that alcoholism is a disease for which there is no ultimate cure. Although CR rejects A.A.'s view of alcoholism as a disease and calls it sin, the title nevertheless promotes the A.A. concept in contradiction to what the Bible teaches. Sin is not something from which a believer is "in recovery." Sin is confessed by the sinner and forgiven by God. The believer is cleansed of the sin right then. "I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin" (Ps 32:5).

At the 2005 Celebrate Recovery Summit, every speaker introduced himself or herself in the A.A. "recovery" mode, with this "Christianized" difference: "Hi, I'm so and so…and I'm a believer in Jesus Christ who struggles with issues of (alcohol, drug, codependency, sex, or whatever) addiction." The audience then applauded to affirm the individual for overcoming the "denial" of his or her habitual sin. Not to confess some "addiction" or specific sin struggle raises suspicions of "being in denial." Throughout the three-day conference, there was never a hint from any of the speakers that anything about A.A., 12 Steps, or CR might not be biblical. Moreover, where Celebrate Recovery programs were not available, those "in recovery" were encouraged to attend A.A. or N.A. meetings.

Rick Warren, on video, reassured the Summit attendees that CR was no man-made therapy. He insisted that CR was based upon the "actual words of Jesus Christ from the eight Beatitudes, which parallel the 12 Steps" and identified his own "Higher Power: His name is Jesus Christ." I don't find "Higher Power," which is a misrepresentation of God, in the Bible. Nor can I fathom why a Bible-believing Christian would want to promote Bill Wilson's concept and methodology. Why not simply rely on what the Bible teaches?
Is God's way completely sufficient to set one free from so-called addictions? Did A.A.'s founders provide a more effective way? If so, what did the church do for the nearly 2,000 years prior to Bill Wilson's "spiritually enlightened" way to recovery? Moreover, if Wilson's method really works, why are some in the church trying to add Jesus as one's Higher Power and the Beatitudes to it? On the other hand, if the effectiveness of the 12-Steps program is questionable at best and detrimental to the gospel and to a believer's life and growth in Christ, why attempt to "Christianize" such a program? It is imperative that all believers ask themselves whether or not they truly believe that the Scriptures and the enablement of God's Holy Spirit are sufficient for "all things that pertain to life and godliness" (2 Pt 1:3). A rejection of this biblical teaching is the only possible justification for turning to ways the Bible condemns: "the counsel of the ungodly" (Ps 1:1) and "a way which seemeth right unto a man."

How dependent is Celebrate Recovery upon (with minor modifications) A.A.'s 12 Steps? Completely! Those going through CR's small group take from 12 to 16 months to complete the 12-Steps program. Many go through more than one small group and often become leaders in one while attending others. Without Bill Wilson's principles, the CR program would be reduced to a handful of misapplied Bible verses. Tragically, the most obvious biblical problem with such an approach to overcoming habitual sins seems to be dismissed by all 12-Steps advocates: the Bible never offers a by-the-numbers self-help methodology for deliverance from sin or for living a sanctified life. God's way involves obedience to His full counsel and maturity in Christ through the enablement of His Holy Spirit.

Warren's CR program views the 12 Steps as generally compatible with Scripture yet seeks out verses that appear to biblically reinforce each step. In doing so, however, scriptural interpretations are forced upon concepts that either have no direct relationship to the Bible or that pervert the true interpretation of the scripture intended to support the particular step. CR's attempt to use the Beatitudes as biblical principles for overcoming habitual sins, for example, is a serious distortion of the Word of God.

Search as you may, you'll find no commentaries that even hint at such a use of the Beatitudes. Why? Simply because the Beatitudes all have to do with seeking the Kingdom of God and nothing to do with solving an individual's so-called addictions. Again, why try to legitimize from Scripture Wilson's "ungodly counsel" from "seducing spirits [bringing] doctrines of devils" (1 Tm 4:1)?

Consider, for example, the "Beatitudes-justified" first three steps: (1) We admitted we were powerless over our addictions and compulsive behaviors. That our lives had become unmanageable. "Happy are those who are spiritually poor." (2) Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity. "Happy are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted." (3) Made a decision to turn our life and our will over to the care of God (modified from A.A.'s "God as we understood Him"). "Happy are the meek." This is more than a misdirected attempt to sanctify (in Rick Warren's words) Bill Wilson's "biblically vague" 12 Steps.2 It both abuses the Scriptures and reinterprets Wilson.

In these foundational steps, Wilson is summarizing his beliefs based upon his experiences as a "recovering alcoholic." He felt "powerless" because he believed alcoholism was an incurable disease that consequently made his life "unmanageable." Since he couldn't "cure" himself (although millions do without 12-Step or other therapies!), he put his faith in "a power greater than ourselves," whom he called God, and "understood" Him by fabricating Him out of beliefs discovered in his study of different religions and religious experiences. That's more than "biblically vague." It's a false religion.

So why would Celebrate Recovery or the multitudes of other Christianized 12-Steps groups try to reconcile the Word of God with Wilson's definitely erroneous and demonically inspired methodology? The deluded response is: "Because it works!" But does it?

Pragmatism is the fuel that powers "the way that seems right" and governs much of what is being lauded in the church today. Not only is this unbiblical, but too often there is nothing beyond enthusiastic testimonials to support the claim that something actually works. The reality for the 12-Steps program of A.A. and N.A. is that there is no research evidence proving that they are more effective than other treatments. Furthermore, the most extensive studies related to "addictions" conclude that most drug and alcohol abusers recover without any psychotherapeutic treatment or self-help therapies.3


The many problems inherent within a Christianized 12-Steps program-and particularly???Celebrate???Recovery-are too numerous for this brief article. Yet, consider these observations: CR is highly promoted as completely biblical and not psychological, yet the key speakers for CR Summit 2005 were clinical psychologists Drs. John Townsend and Henry Cloud. Psychologist David Stoop, the editor of Life Recovery Bible (CR participants' mandatory paraphrase Bible, polluted with psychotherapy commentary), is a favorite speaker at Saddleback's CR Large Group meetings. The CR leadership manual advises, "Have Christian psychotherapists volunteer their time to help instruct and support your leaders."4

CR's entire program content is marbled with psychobabble such as this "solution" from its Adult Children of the Chemically Addicted group's dogmas:"The solution is to become your own loving parent....You will recover the child within you, learning to accept and love yourself."5 This is biblical?! Honoring the psychologically contrived "disorder" of codependency, CR's Codependency and Christian Living group made this humanistic and biblically false statement: "Jesus taught....A love of self forms the basis for loving others."6

A.A.'s 12-Steps methodology, along with its antibiblical psychotherapeutic concepts and practices permeates Celebrate Recovery, yet no one at the Summit with whom I spoke seemed concerned. CR's small group meetings are the antithesis of the way the Bible instructs mature believers to help those young or struggling in the faith to grow. Pastors and elders can be small group leaders, but not for teaching purposes. No leader may biblically instruct or correct but may only affirm the "transparency" of the participant sharing his feelings. "Cross-talk," or comments by others, are prohibited to allow the freest expression possible. Much of this "expression" reinforces psychotherapeutic myths. The two-hour meetings usually open with the spiritually anemic Serenity Prayer and the recitation of the 12 Steps. Leaders are drawn from those who have completed one or more 12-Step groups. Some leaders work through one "addiction" in a small group while leading another group. It's not unusual for a leader to put in eight to ten hours in CR functions per week, every week. Serious Bible study and discipleship are not part of the Celebrate Recovery "biblical" emphasis.

Let no one think that presenting these critical concerns about Celebrate Recovery in any way lessens the biblical obligation (Gal 6) of the church to minister to those struggling with habitual sin. The issue is not whether we should minister, but how we should minister: man's way or God's way? Man's way, or a mixture of biblical teaching and ungodly counsel, is contrary to God's way. Man's way leads to death. Applying Scripture to man's way leads to a slower death, akin to what would result when pure water is added to a toxic drinking fountain. We desperately need to take heed to God's admonition through the Prophet Jeremiah: "For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water" (Jer 2:13). TBC

Endnotes
1. Celebrate Recovery Summit 2005 Handbook, 61.
2. Celebrate Recovery Senior Pastor Support Video, 2003.
3. The Harvard Mental Health Letter, Vol. 16, No. 12, 1-4; See also:
www.stats.org/issuerecord.jsp?issue=true&ID=8.
4. Celebrate, 31.
5. Ibid., 342.
6. Ibid., 350.
I await your response,

Sincerely in Christ,

James Sundquist
Director
Rock Salt Publishing

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